gab

Pope Francis just said WHAT?  Excuse me?

Can anyone out there help me reconcile what Pope Francis just said with Catholic Revealed Truth? 

Vic Biorseth, Wednesday, November 18, 2015
https://www.catholicamericanthinker.com/

He's the Pope.  Right? 

Let's not take anything "out of context" here.  Here is the question posed by the Lutheran lady to the Vicar of Christ: 

My name is Anke de Bernardinis and, like many people in our community, I'm married to an Italian, who is a Roman Catholic Christian. We’ve lived happily together for many years, sharing joys and sorrows. And so we greatly regret being divided in faith and not being able to participate in the Lord's Supper together. What can we do to achieve, finally, communion on this point?

That was the question, asked by a Lutheran, addressed to Pope Francis.  And here is his response: 

The question on sharing the Lord’s Supper isn’t easy for me to respond to, above all in front of a theologian like Cardinal Kasper! I’m scared! 

I think of how the Lord told us when he gave us this command to “do this in memory of me,” and when we share the Lord’s Supper, we recall and we imitate the same as the Lord. And there will be the Lord’s Supper, there will be the eternal banquet in the new Jerusalem, but that will be the last one. In the meantime, I ask myself — and don’t know how to respond — what you’re asking me, I ask myself the question. To share the Lord’s banquet: is it the goal of the path or is it the viaticum [provisions] for walking together? I leave that question to the theologians and those who understand. 

It’s true that in a certain sense, to share means there aren’t differences between us, that we have the same doctrine – underscoring that word, a difficult word to understand — but I ask myself: but don’t we have the same Baptism? If we have the same Baptism, shouldn’t we be walking together? You’re a witness also of a profound journey, a journey of marriage: a journey really of the family and human love and of a shared faith, no? We have the same Baptism. 

When you feel yourself to be a sinner – and I feel more of a sinner – when your husband feels a sinner, you go to the Lord and ask forgiveness; your husband does the same and also goes to the priest and asks absolution. I’m healed to keep alive the Baptism. When you pray together, that Baptism grows, becomes stronger. When you teach your kids who Jesus is, why Jesus came, what Jesus did for us, you’re doing the same thing, whether in the Lutheran language or the Catholic one, but it’s the same. The question: and the [Lord’s] Supper? There are questions that, only if one is sincere with oneself and with the little theological light one has, must be responded to on one’s own. See for yourself. This is my body. This is my blood. Do it in remembrance of me – this is a viaticum that helps us to journey on. 

I once had a great friendship with an Episcopalian bishop who went a little wrong – he was 48 years old, married, two children. This was a discomfort to him – a Catholic wife, Catholic children, him a bishop. He accompanied his wife and children to Mass on Sunday, and then went to worship with his community. It was a step of participation in the Lord’s Supper. Then he went forward, the Lord called him, a just man. To your question, I can only respond with a question: what can I do with my husband, because the Lord’s Supper accompanies me on my path?

It’s a problem each must answer, but a pastor-friend once told me: “We believe that the Lord is present there, he is present. You all believe that the Lord is present. And so what's the difference?” — “Eh, there are explanations, interpretations.” Life is bigger than explanations and interpretations. Always refer back to your baptism. “One faith, one baptism, one Lord.” This is what Paul tells us, and then take the consequences from there. I wouldn’t ever dare to allow this, because it’s not my competence. One baptism, one Lord, one faith. Talk to the Lord and then go forward. I don’t dare to say anything more.

So ... the Pope of the Catholic Church is "scared" to speak openly in front of a theologian like Cardinal Kaspar, who is agitating for sharing Catholic Eucharist with adulterers?  If Kaspar thinks Eucharist may be shared with adulterers, why would Pope Francis think he had any problem with mere Lutherans? 

Eucharist is not within the competence of Pope Francis?  Well then, what, exactly, is within his competence? 

Talk to the Lord, and then go forward?  Excuse me? 

"I don't dare say anything more."  Why not? 

How, exactly, is this not moral relativism on a grand scale? 

Help me out here. 



=====

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SLIMC1 Secularist Liberal Intellectual Media Complex
GESGOEAEOT2 Gradually, Ever So Gradually, Over Eons And Eons Of Time
PEWAG3 Punctuated Equilibrium's Wild-Assed Guess
TTRSTF4 Them There Real Scientifical-Type Fellers
TTRSPTF5 Them There Real Smart Perfesser-Type Fellers
TTRSJTF6 Them There Real Smart Journalistical-Type Fellers
SNRTACBT7 Surely No Right Thinking Adult Could Believe Today
STNSEACPB8 Surely Today No Serious Educated Adult Could Possibly Believe
WDN9 We Don't Know
BMDFP10 Baboons, Mongrel Dogs, Filthy Pigs and ...
HBAACOTE11 Human Beings Are A Cancer On The Earth
ACLU12 Anti-Christian Litigation Union
FLORMPORIF13 Flagrant Liar, Or, Mindless Parrot, Or, Innocent Fool
MEJTML14 Marxist Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar
IEJTML15 Islamic Ends-Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar
MPAV16 Marxist Principles And Values
WBESSWG17 Wise, Benign, Elite, Super-Scientific World Governance
TRMITM18 The Reason Man's In This Mess
IYI19 Intellectual Yet Idiotic
TTRSCBTF20 Them There Real Smart Catholic Bishop Type Fellers
IACMPVND21 Illegal-Alien-Criminal Marxocrat-Party-Voting Nation-Destroyers
PEJTML22 Palestinian Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar
PSYOP23 "Psychological Operation" Mind Trick
CDC24 Covid Developmentally Challenged
LGBTQ+ Every Letter Represents A Serious Psychotic sexual Identity Disorder
HEJTML26 Hedonist Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar
SEJTML27 Scientistic Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar

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Date:  Wed Nov 18 08:51:53 2015
From:  JimBob
Email:   jimbobrob@gmail.com
Location:  New Madrid Mo
Comment: 

Vic -

Welcome to the Church Of Situational Ethics.

Vatican II the 'author' of the New Catholic Church has created the church of ambiguity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church leaves one to interpret for themselves many of the dogmas. Everything in the church is now 'shades or grey'.

Lutheran Dogma "... sin and sin bodly for we have all been saved".

Pretty much says it all...

Date:  Wed Nov 18 2015
From:  Vic Biorseth
Comment:  

Other than Liturgy, I find no ambiguity in the Council documents.  And I find no ambiguity at all in the Catechism; you'll have to point that out to me. 

Everything in the Creed is dogma; that is, doctrine that has been formalized by pronouncement, usually of a Council with the Pope.  The only other ones were the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.  Doctrine is not ambiguous, and I find the Catechism quite clear.  It contains a definitive Papal pronouncement on its validity as Catholic teaching in the front of it. 

That being said, we now have lots of Priests and Bishops and Cardinals who teach not in full accordance with the Catechism. 

And if Pope Francis is this vague on the original teaching of Christ and His Apostles, which are his responsibility to protect and teach unchanged, then we all have a real problem.  Note well that he is protected from officially teaching Revealed Truth in error. 

Thank God for the Catechism. 

Regards,

Vic

Date:  Wed Nov 18 12:46:27 2015
From:  caterine
Email:   monte450@verizon.net
Location:  new york ny  usa
Comment: 

No wonder he got along with President Obama and right now the catholic bishops are helping him bring terrorists to USA. The church can not exist without Jesus, however we do just fine without Pope Francis and his double talk or double speak. and throw in the bishops too. Mother of victim(my daughter) of murder in nyc on 09/11/01

Date:  Wed Nov 18 18:49:05 2015
From:  John
Email:   
Location:  WyoAming, P
Comment: 

It seems that Francis' leadership skills are on par with that of one Barack Obama.

Date:  Wed Nov 18 2015
From:  Vic Biorseth
Comment:  

In Chapter 12, "The Pope Francis factor" of Culture=Religion+Politics, a purported "Mafia Club" of Cardinals called St. Gallen was revealed to the world in the biography of Cardinal Godfried Daneels of Brussels.  This group, which included Cardinal Kaspar, was said to have somehow caused the ouster of Pope Benedict XVI, and then engineered the election of Pope Francis.  If it is even partially true, this Left-Liberal "Mafia Club", a politically powerful small minority (I hope) among Cardinals, is trying hard to take over the whole Church. 

As time goes on, I give the story more and more credence.  I have to wonder if Cardinal Kaspar and many of his high ranking Cardinal allies might be be better advised to just leave the Catholic Church, and go join the Church of Divorce and Remarriage.  (I mean England.) 

I just don't know what to say about Pope Francis. 

Regards,

Vic

Date:  Wed Nov 18 20:49:09 2015
From:  BWFlames
Email:   b.ames@sbcglobal.net
Location:  San Carlos/ CA / USA
Comment: 

I am  78 and a baptized Catholic. My parents were married out of the church as dad had been married in the church and his first wife would not  sign an annulment form. My parents continued to attend mass regularly and provided me with a catholic education through college.

        Of course neither of them received the Eucharist until I was  14 and they divorced as mom wanted to return to receiving it.

         So as I read what Francis babbled on about without any kind of a straight forward answer I sit here and ponder Catholicism. 16 years of religion and theology classes plus 4 of philosophy at one time provided me with a very sound foundation. However when Francis speaks I wonder if Jesus is even scratching his head.

          Threrfore I subscribe to anyone choosing to partake of the Eucharist that he or she reflect on what he or she is doing and pray to The Lord for guidance in their respective lives.

           This is because if indeed the host and wine are the Body and Blood of Jesus then no matter who partakes of them Jesus will be with the person as He is when I partake of the Eucharist.

           A stupid piece of paper saying my father's first marriage is annulled bordered on the ridiculous. The vows of marriage become meaningless and the church's rules become questionable for well intentioned persons.

Date:  Wed Nov 18 2015
From:  Vic Biorseth
Comment: 

BWFlames:

See the Annulment page.  The Church wasn't founded to be convenient.  See also, 1 Cor 11 27-29, as follows:

[27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
[28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
[29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

What is meant by an "unworthy manner" is not being in a state of grace, that is to say, being in a state of disgrace.  To participate in the body and the blood is to affirm that you are fully Catholic, embracing all that the Church teaches, and that you are not in a state of sin.  To do otherwise is to eat your own judgment. 

I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.  Catholicism ain't convenient. 

Regards,

Vic


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America's Survival Inc.

Cliff Kincaid

Trump is Destroying Reagan's Legacy By Cliff Kincaid

Trump is a Marked Man By Cliff Kincaid

Terrorist Attack in Baltimore By Cliff Kincaid

Moscow Terror Attack is Another KGB Operation to Fool the West

Obama’s New Nazi-Communist Alliance

On the "Days Of Rage" Planned For The 2024 Marxocrat Party Convention Some of you just couldn't believe that the formerly Democrat (Confederate) Party had already gone totally Communist before the 1968 Party Convention

Making Russia Great Again By Cliff Cinkaid

De-Nazification and De-Communization in Russia The The mutual non-aggression Hitler-Stalin Pact, which started World War II, has been carefully “forgotten”

Climate Emergency To Produce a New World Order By Cliff Kincaid

The Next Phase of Obama’s “Permanent Revolution” By Cliff Kincaid

Evil in the White House In This War, The Enemy Is In The Ranks, Standing Right Next To You

Satanism, Communism: What's The Difference? Look To The Roots Of Communism

Fox Is the Leading "Trans" Channel There are some rather peculiar goings-on at the Fox News Channel.

Trump and His Communist Enemies The Demonized Joe McCarthy Turned Out To Be Accurate In Everything He Claimed: Fox News Is Wrong About Him And About Much More

The Five Stooges on Capitol Hill They Think We Need Even More Doped No-Hopers In The American Intelligence Community

The Biden Doctrine of Demoralization and Defeat By Cliff Kincaid

A Republican Church Committee? Do Pro-American Republicans Even Know Who Frank Church Really Was?

A Top to Bottom Housecleaning of America When we clean our house, my wife has a slogan, “Top to bottom,” meaning you have to target the whole house. The same advice applies to nations.

China's Mass Murder Experiment Phase Two

Bury The Dead And Move On Fuggedaboutit!

9/11 Truth This is the real 9/11 Truth: Our “intelligence” agencies are infiltrated.

Moving Toward Gorbachev’s “World of Communism” It's called the Monster Plot.

The Errors of Russia, the Dupes of Putin, and Another Holocaust Can The Increasingly Faithless Free World Be Saved From Russia?

World War Quietly Conquering A Distracted and Blithely Unaware World. Could it actually be Satan's world war on despised humanity?

Stand With Ukraine Against Russia and China By Cliff Kincaid

Tucker Carlson Carlson Gets His Comeuppance. Tucker's View: It is not moral for us to intervene in support of any nation's (Ukraine's) democratic self-determination and against Soviet military expansion.

The Need for Secure Borders. Have we so easily forgotten what borders are for? Have we forgotten that evil exists in the world? Have we forgotten how to keep apart from this evil?

Can Ukraine Survive Putin and Biden? Can America? Can the Free World? Can Faith in God?

The Soviet Union: Back From The Dead The Return of the Evil Empire

Could an American Surrender be in the offing with Biden at the wheel? Is this not the perfect time for Communism to strike, with Commies now governing America, China and Russia? What would Biden do?

Abortion and Communism. If you ever wondered where all the popular abortion-contraception-sexuality-perversion nuttiness came from, look to Marx's Communist Manifesto.

The Secret Life of Martin Luther King, Jr. A life almost totally at odds with his reputation as a minister of the Gospel.

"We belong to the Church militant; and She is militant because on earth the powers of darkness are ever restless to encompass Her destruction. Not only in the far-off centuries of the early Church, but down through the ages and in this our day, the enemies of God and Christian civilization make bold to attack the Creator's supreme dominion and sacrosanct human rights." --Pope Pius XII

"It is not lawful to take the things of others to give to the poor. It is a sin worthy of punishment, not an act deserving a reward, to give away what belongs to others." --St. Francis of Assisi

Traditional Latin Tridentine Mass, offered at Assumption Grotto Church in Detroit, Michigan. Our deepest prayer, our highest form of worship, and the way God should be treated.Assumption Grotto Church in Detroit, MI

Find a Latin Mass

Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.—Winston Churchill

Note the Military Assault Rifle common to the American Founding Era.

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.—Ayn Rand

Atheist Genesis:

In the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing.
And then nothing accidentally exploded and created everything.
And then some bits of everything accidentally encountered other bits of everything and formed some new kinds of everything.
And then some bits of everything accidentally arranged themselves into self-replicating bits of everything.
And then some self-replicating bits of everything accidentally arranged themselves into dinosaurs.
See?

(See The Darwinism Pages)

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